103: Ben's Story

Written June 11, 2024

Ben, Satish, and Kushal

I never intended to tell this story. I had hoped for something different. Yet, here we are.

Lately, I have noticed a curious pattern. We seem to be living in a world with a big disconnect between men and women. Whether it’s the social media phenomenon “I choose the bear” or Harrison Butker of the Kansas City Chiefs graduation speech at Benedictine College, there is a national dialogue around gender roles. Women are speaking up, sharing their experiences, and calling men out. In return, some men are lashing out in self-defense and claiming their masculinity. Then a specific group appears to be visibly silent - progressive white men.

My original plan was to conduct a panel interview. I wanted to explore the experiences of progressive white men in today's society. I reached out to six people who I deeply respect, trust, and view as good role models for my son. Men I politically incorrectly described as “Those who are NOT pieces of shit.”

I further explained that the interview would be a means to examine the theme of transparency. I noticed their voices were missing from the public dialogue and wanted to create space to understand more about their experiences. Of the six men I contacted, Ben was the only one willing to participate.

There were a variety of reasons people declined - not wanting to be on the internet, not wanting to be in the spotlight, not wanting to offend people, say the wrong thing, or have their words misinterpreted. Some men were willing to share, but only if their names were kept anonymous - something I was not willing to do during transparency month. They all made it clear they were supportive of me and wanted me to succeed, but speaking publicly was just too uncomfortable.

I looped back to Ben and shared what unfolded. His response surprised me. He wanted to do it anyway. He said he wasn’t afraid of sharing and had some theories on why my request got rejected. So we talked over Zoom and the conversation was illuminating.

I’ve known Ben for over 20 years. We met when Satish and I started dating in college. He had known Satish since high school. They met through Nicole, Ben’s high school sweetheart and now wife. Nicole was the first person Satish befriended when he moved to Washington State in the 8th grade. Ben and Nicole have remained some of our closest and dearest friends.

From the outside, Ben could be described as a very manly man. After high school, he married Nicole and joined the military. He served for 10 years in the Navy touring on nuclear submarines with a crew of entirely men. As a hobby, he took up the sport of powerlifting, where he still holds the record in Washington State for his weight class, deadlifting 804.7lbs, and bench pressing 490.50lbs. After leaving the Navy he got an MBA and entered banking, then the tech industry. He has worked for major tech companies including Amazon, Facebook, Twitter and now Roblox where he’s the Director of Knowledge Management, Quality, and Learning.

As we connected via video chat, the first thing I asked him was about his Zoom background. Ben is a sneaker-head. He has a lot of shoes which he prominently displays on the wall in his office. “Do you show that background to everyone?" I asked him curiously, “Or are you leaving it un-blurred just because it’s me?” He laughed and said “No, that’s my background. It’s a good conversation starter.”

That’s kind of how Ben is. He is who he is. Take him or leave him. He described this trait as “living out loud” and named it as the prominent reason why he was willing to talk with me when no other men would. “I haven’t had an experience thus far where looking like an idiot harmed me more than it helped me. I’ve been saying dumb shit for 40 years. When faced with someone with a different opinion, I take it as a growth opportunity. I’m either going to learn where I am wrong or I get a chance to fight for my values.”  That answer dripped with sweaty male privilege, which Ben acknowledged immediately after saying it. As an Enneagram 7, the Enthusiast, he is also a bit impulsive.

I asked Ben what he felt about being the only man willing to do this interview and he explained it conjured up two emotions - empathy and sadness. He shared that being a white progressive man is a difficult identity to hold right now if you truly believe in things like women’s rights, LGBQT+ issues, equity, diversity, and inclusion. For the first time in their lives, men may be feeling like they don’t belong. Equity work requires a deep commitment to being an ally. That means listening, staying curious, questioning your assumptions, and often remaining silent. He said, “It’s one of the very few spaces where white men are not given the benefit of the doubt.” While he understands why that is, it also creates difficult conditions for growth. Expressing true curiosity becomes tricky when you’re faced with immediate pushback. “The line is so fine right now for honestly exploring differences, versus immediately becoming an adversary. That's why I’m empathetic.”

His sadness comes from a different place. “If you’re not willing to put yourself in uncomfortable situations, you’re never going to learn and you’re never going to have a voice,” he explained. He believes that many progressive white men choose to be silent to avoid their discomfort. “Bravery is being the person who is willing to say ‘Hey I don’t know what I’m doing here, can you help me out?’ I’m sad that we seem to be missing progressive white men who can model that.”

For someone like Ben who occupies a lot of male-dominated spaces, his “live out loud” personality also makes him a target. “When I was powerlifting, I was also on the Board of Directors of an LGBQT+ advocacy organization and would wear rainbow socks during competition. So many people thought I was pretending to be ‘woke’ to get ahead. They thought I was just a showman and that I didn’t really believe in these things.” When he stood up for his values, it didn’t always go well. “Being a progressive white man is dealing with a balance of not offending the groups you want to support, while simultaneously taking some level of abuse from the other men in your life, whether it is passive aggressive or actually aggressive.”

I wanted to better understand what made him become this way so I asked if there was a point in life that stood out as a change moment. Ben grew up in what would now be considered a conservative household. While his mom was a Democrat, his dad was a Republican in the military. “I grew up as your typical 90’s army brat exposed to a hyper-masculine and conservative culture,” he explained. When he joined the military himself it further exposed him to toxic behaviors like hazing and derogatory slurs. “When I was in the Navy I had this really good friend who directly told me to my face to not use slurs. His brother was gay and the language I used offended him. When faced with the fact that I was causing harm to someone that I cared about, I instantly changed.”

Yet, this ability to adapt and not take offense isn’t natural for everyone. “A lot of life and where you end up is just luck,” Ben explained. “Every day I am thankful I was born with a brain that is comfortable with change and being challenged. I just adjust.” His ability to adapt also helped his marriage. While he was out on the submarine, Nicole was learning more about identity and oppression. “I learned a lot from her. She really enlightened me to new ways of thinking.”

Today he spends a lot of time in another male-dominated industry – technology and gaming. In 2023, women accounted for only 23% of software engineers. Most women employed in technology work for human resources or Ben’s department, Knowledge Management, Quality, and Learning. The original reason I wanted Ben to participate in a panel was because he’s been outwardly transparent when it comes to issues of pay equity. “In general, my experience is that if you’re in the same role then there is most likely parity in pay. But that doesn’t tell the whole story” he explained. The highest paying jobs are software engineers and leadership positions, not human resources. Those positions are predominantly held by men and not only white men.

“The place where I get the most pushback about D.E.I. culture is in my professional career,” Ben shared. “Across all the companies I’ve worked for there’s been pretty consistent backlash from the software engineering teams.” In Seattle, where Ben is located, more than half of the software engineers were born outside of the United States. Of that percentage, 40 percent came from India. “So now I’m a progressive white man pushing back on the concept of pulling yourself up from your bootstraps, with an immigrant population who resonates deeply with that message. It is a very complicated place to be.”

As we wrapped up our conversation, I was extremely grateful that Ben was willing to transparently share his experiences. The last question I asked was our curiosity question: What is there to gain from sharing your truth? “Relationships,” he responded quickly. “The relationships I have are authentic, not shrouded in mystery. Nobody questions where I stand. You tell people you love them. Even your friends. Especially your friends. That’s the most satisfying part of all of it.”

As a person who has been on the receiving end of that love, I wholeheartedly agree.

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